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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is my 2nd oil change. I dumped the factory fill at 1500 miles and replaced it with a non Dexos 2 oil. This is M1 Delvac ESP, older PAO/Ester based CJ-4 variety.

Oil has 5k on it. I’m going to shorten my cold start warm up time from 5-10 minutes to 3-5 minutes to try and improve the fuel dilution. This engine only has 6500 miles so the rings may not be fully seated as well.

Also worth noting that for about 3k miles I ran exclusively on HVO from propel.

 

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This is my 2nd oil change. I dumped the factory fill at 1500 miles and replaced it with a non Dexos 2 oil. This is M1 Delvac ESP, older PAO/Ester based CJ-4 variety.

Oil has 5k on it. I’m going to shorten my cold start warm up time from 5-10 minutes to 3-5 minutes to try and improve the fuel dilution. This engine only has 6500 miles so the rings may not be fully seated as well.

Also worth noting that for about 3k miles I ran exclusively on HVO from propel.

Here: https://imgur.com/Ts7LteN
Are you concerned about the SAPS content?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Are you concerned about the SAPS content?
0.8% vs 1.0% ? No not at all. PAO/Ester blends have very low volatility so there will be similar or likely less sulphated ash as oil vapor entering the intake than the other dexos 2 synthetics or blends on the market.

It’s an excellent report. I’ll take “what is increased engine protection for $500, Alex” LOL. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
HVO = hydrotreated vegetable oil. Also called synthetic diesel. Renewable fuel made from biomass. With lubricity additive, It meets the ASTM chemical properties of diesel. It is pure, burns much cleaner and has nearly 2x the cetane rating of #2. Your engine runs very smooth as ignition timing is advanced.

The negative of HVO is that it has less density and BTUs per gallon of fuel. Observed Fuel economy is about 10% less than #2 diesel.

https://www.neste.com/na/en/how-nexbtl-different-biodiesel
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes. The fuel is so pure that I have fewer regen events and the are completed faster. I’ve only noticed one regen since I switched over and it was completed in less than 5 minutes. I’ve switched to using HVO in my TDI and Canyon. They both run very smooth with reduced diesel knock.

HVO is a clean fuel so it is subsidized by carbon credits. It’s one benefit of living in this progressive $hithole known as California. It’s only available at a few gas stations in the area, but I have their app on my phone so I can find it when it’s time to fill up.
 

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Yes. The fuel is so pure that I have fewer regen events and the are completed faster. I’ve only noticed one regen since I switched over and it was completed in less than 5 minutes. I’ve switched to using HVO in my TDI and Canyon. They both run very smooth with reduced diesel knock.

HVO is a clean fuel so it is subsidized by carbon credits. It’s one benefit of living in this progressive $hithole known as California. It’s only available at a few gas stations in the area, but I have their app on my phone so I can find it when it’s time to fill up.
Would you be kind and share the app and possible locations of stations you know of? I’m in SoCal and am very interested in trying the HVO.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Oh man, I spent most of the night reading up on the HVO. It sound really impressive. I will have to give it a try.
It’s like everything else in life. There are + and - to using HVO.

You will see a fuel economy reduction of about 10%. I also think that there is more error in the DIC calculated MPG when using HVO because it has less btus and density than diesel #2. I need to more testing to confirm this however. I’m seeing 1.5-2 mpg less hand calculated than what is averaged in the DIC.

Another negative is limited availability. There also could be a warranty issue with GM if you had a fuel system or engine failure.

There may be other factors which may surface later, but if you can live with them you may like the fuel.
 

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It’s like everything else in life. There are + and - to using HVO.

You will see a fuel economy reduction of about 10%. I also think that there is more error in the DIC calculated MPG when using HVO because it has less btus and density than diesel #2. I need to more testing to confirm this however. I’m seeing 1.5-2 mpg less hand calculated than what is averaged in the DIC.

Another negative is limited availability. There also could be a warranty issue with GM if you had a fuel system or engine failure.

There may be other factors which may surface later, but if you can live with them you may like the fuel.
There is not many station, i’m Going to hit the station in Ontario up tomorrow.
 

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HVO = hydrotreated vegetable oil. Also called synthetic diesel. Renewable fuel made from biomass. With lubricity additive, It meets the ASTM chemical properties of diesel. It is pure, burns much cleaner and has nearly 2x the cetane rating of #2. Your engine runs very smooth as ignition timing is advanced.

The negative of HVO is that it has less density and BTUs per gallon of fuel. Observed Fuel economy is about 10% less than #2 diesel.

https://www.neste.com/na/en/how-nexbtl-different-biodiesel
That and it takes more energy to produce than diesel.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
That and it takes more energy to produce than diesel.
True, but anything "produced" from a raw material vs. something extracted from the ground will be more energy intensive. Since HVO is made from waste biomass, there is some recapture of energy, which normally would be lost if it were disposed of. This offset could be factored into the equation as well. Honestly, I don't really care.

My next 7500 mile oil analysis will be done completely running of HVO. It will be interesting to see what the wear numbers will be. For me, as long as my truck is sucking EGR, I will continue to use HVO.

I really wonder what the true cost of this fuel is? If it wasn't subsidized by CCs, how much $/gal?
 

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True, but anything "produced" from a raw material vs. something extracted from the ground will be more energy intensive. Since HVO is made from waste biomass, there is some recapture of energy, which normally would be lost if it were disposed of. This offset could be factored into the equation as well. Honestly, I don't really care.

My next 7500 mile oil analysis will be done completely running of HVO. It will be interesting to see what the wear numbers will be. For me, as long as my truck is sucking EGR, I will continue to use HVO.

I really wonder what the true cost of this fuel is? If it wasn't subsidized by CCs, how much $/gal?
In order to break the biomass down you have to use a catalyst that costs about the same per gallon as diesel before you put in methanol. I used to have a friend who was taking spent ligne from cellulosic bio fuel and fueling a labrotory diesel electric generator. It was supplementing power for the batch reactors and computer monitoring where he was attempting to make 3rd generation cellulosic based fuel on an industrial scale. Costs were enormous.

One of these days I am going to convert my truck to run on cng. No shortage of cng down here in Texas. Not sure about Canada.

Diesel is so cheap right now and the curve is only getting better as the Chinese continue to build more refineries and the museum States in Europe and California continue to outlaw hydrocarbons effectively lessening the cost of diesel for the rest of us.

Have you ever calculated the cost of replacing the entire engine over fuel cost/consumption? Just curious if it would be cheaper to buy a crate and where the breakeven point is for hvo vs diesel adjusting for mileage.

I have a 300 TDI with 100k on clock and had to rebuild the complete upper assembly but the lower was fine running filthy offroad diesel for most of its life. <== About 1000 US
I have a cummins 5.9 with 360k on the clock and have only had to change the pump <== about 1200
I would guess this motor complete costs about 5-6k.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
In order to break the biomass down you have to use a catalyst that costs about the same per gallon as diesel before you put in methanol. I used to have a friend who was taking spent ligne from cellulosic bio fuel and fueling a labrotory diesel electric generator. It was supplementing power for the batch reactors and computer monitoring where he was attempting to make 3rd generation cellulosic based fuel on an industrial scale. Costs were enormous.

One of these days I am going to convert my truck to run on cng. No shortage of cng down here in Texas. Not sure about Canada.

Diesel is so cheap right now and the curve is only getting better as the Chinese continue to build more refineries and the museum States in Europe and California continue to outlaw hydrocarbons effectively lessening the cost of diesel for the rest of us.

Have you ever calculated the cost of replacing the entire engine over fuel cost/consumption? Just curious if it would be cheaper to buy a crate and where the breakeven point is for hvo vs diesel adjusting for mileage.

I have a 300 TDI with 100k on clock and had to rebuild the complete upper assembly but the lower was fine running filthy offroad diesel for most of its life. <== About 1000 US
I have a cummins 5.9 with 360k on the clock and have only had to change the pump <== about 1200
I would guess this motor complete costs about 5-6k.
Your getting FAME based biodiesel and HVO confused. FAME uses methanol for conversion while HVO uses hydrogen as the catalyst. These are two different fuels made with different processes. Hydrogen can be made with fuel cells relatively cheap.
https://www.neste.com/sites/default/files/attachments/neste_renewable_diesel_handbook.pdf

Our diesel in California is the best in the country. It’s additized at the pump and Minimum cetane is 53. Cetane at top tier stations can be in the mid to high 50’s. It’s also the most expensive @ $3.50 gal here currently. Ironically, HVO is usually $0.10-0.30 cents cheaper per gallon than D #2!!! So the MPG difference is somewhat balanced out...

HVO is also extremely clean. Particulate matter from combustion is 35% less. I’m not sure I understand why you think this will cause accelerated wear and require me to purchase a new long block by using it. It’s not biodiesel. I wouldnt run FAME based bio in any HPCR diesel, that is just plain stupid.
 

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Hydrogen is made by cracking oil in refoneries.

It is not that I think you get more wear, the question is whether spending more on hvo is worth the additional cost incurred per mile as your original post was referencing lack of wear. I just figured you were concerned with making your engine last longer above anything else. Will have to look at process for hvo.
 

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Says in writeup it can be made with anything, animal or plant oil, if it is made with rapeseed it is still using a catalyst to breakdown. When they de-hydrogenate fuels it is generally to remove sulfur, benzene and other badies for humans. Since it states there is no aromatics there would be no benzene or xylenes to destroy.

I paid 2.26 $gal for diesel with methanol in it at buccees. The non bio diesel is also available there for 2.80 $/gal. I am not aware of place that sells hvo down here. Will have to investigate. Also will call mu buddy at Valero and see what the cost of making HVO actually is wholesale.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hydrogen is made by cracking oil in refoneries.

It is not that I think you get more wear, the question is whether spending more on hvo is worth the additional cost incurred per mile as your original post was referencing lack of wear. I just figured you were concerned with making your engine last longer above anything else. Will have to look at process for hvo.
Hydrogen can also be made by electrolysis from distilled water.

The HVO is slightly cheaper per gallon than D #2. The cost is partially absorbed.

Also worth noting that my 10% loss of fuel economy is due to using HVO and switching to a 5w40 that is on the thicker side of the SAE scale. The thicker oil is giving me higher oil pressure and causing more drag on the engine as well.
 
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