[Rockcrawlerdude]

@SteveLNew I wouldn't wait until my oil was at 0% before scheduling service.

Do you wait until your tires are down to 0% tread before you go to the tire shop?

I change mine at 5000 miles because I tow, run hot tunes, and these oils have a low TBN to start with

If you don't see the light, that's on you. But, I'm a believer in what @CleverUserName ia preaching.

 

[Burgess159]

As you can see by the test results, the alkalinity of this oil is nearly depleted. The oil should be changed when your TBN reaches 2-3. This may have also contributed to the higher than average wear metals in this analysis.

If you want to protect your engine, do an analysis to calculate the OCI or change it early like Rockcrawlerdude does.

All of those properties on the report are a bunch of gibberish to me (values of N, P, K, Mg, Ca, Na and so on). Which would make sense as I've never done one of these tests. However, the one thing I took away was that you said the oil should be changed when the TBN # reaches 2-3 (yours was less than 1 by the looks of it?). Some of the other info in the bottom area is useful, like if you have antifreeze or water in your oil. But the main thing for if your oil was still good or is bad when you finally changed it, is the TBN #, right?

Also, one more question. You said that Low SAPS oils (again, don't know what that means) do not have the additive package necessary to go the distance under normal driving conditions. One of those oils being say Penzoil Platinum Euro L Full Synthetic 5w30? That's what I'm going with here when I change the oil in about 1,000 to 2,000 miles.

If they don't have the additive package in them, is there something you can add to them to help prolong their life? I have always been a fan of Lucas products and didn't know if we could add Lucas Full Synthetic oil additive to our engines (as the regular Lucas oil additive is way too thick to even think of using in our engines I figure). Thanks for the help.

 

[CleverUserName]

All of those properties on the report are a bunch of gibberish to me (values of N, P, K, Mg, Ca, Na and so on). Which would make sense as I've never done one of these tests. However, the one thing I took away was that you said the oil should be changed when the TBN # reaches 2-3 (yours was less than 1 by the looks of it?). Some of the other info in the bottom area is useful, like if you have antifreeze or water in your oil. But the main thing for if your oil was still good or is bad when you finally changed it, is the TBN #, right?

Also, one more question. You said that Low SAPS oils (again, don't know what that means) do not have the additive package necessary to go the distance under normal driving conditions. One of those oils being say Penzoil Platinum Euro L Full Synthetic 5w30? That's what I'm going with here when I change the oil in about 1,000 to 2,000 miles.

If they don't have the additive package in them, is there something you can add to them to help prolong their life? I have always been a fan of Lucas products and didn't know if we could add Lucas Full Synthetic oil additive to our engines (as the regular Lucas oil additive is way too thick to even think of using in our engines I figure). Thanks for the help.

The minerals and moly are the additive package. These are the constituents of TBN.

Silicon can show that dirt is getting through your air filter.

Metals are the wear metals from the engine.

Sodium is a contaminant.

Yes the remaining TBN value ensures the oil hasn't become acidic. The EGR gases are acidic and will deplete the alkalinity of the oil over time. Low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous, Sulphur) oils are required for modern diesels to protect the emissions systems. Low SAPS oils sacrifice TBN and anti-wear additives. The additives can be supplemented, however your better off just using a quality Cj4 or Ci4 diesel oil that has an adequate additive package. There are some manufactures which still make synthetic Cj4 and Ci4 oils, so you have options.

The tested Cst viscosity can be compared to the Manufacturers starting viscosity to determine how the oil is holding up over time. Synthetics hold their viscosity much longer than conventional oils.

The only oil additives I've used in my VW Jetta TDI are Liqui Moly MoS2 and Motor Protect. Liqui Moly assured me these will not alter the advertised viscosity of an oil and will not cause any DPF failures. However these can increase the SAPS of an oil so there will be some impact on the longevity of your DPF.

https://products.liqui-moly.us/mos2-anti-friction-engine-treatment.html

https://products.liqui-moly.com/motor-protect-5.html

I plan to use the Motor Protect mixed with M1 Delvac Cj4 ESP in my 2.8 after break-in when I change the oil at 7,500 miles, and every 30K after that. in between the Motor Protect treatments I will use MoS2, one can per 6 qt oil change. Just like in my VW Jetta.... I've never used the lucas products so I can't comment on their efficacy.

 

[RollyPollieBenito]

I like That catch can idea.

 

[Rockcrawlerdude]

I like That catch can idea.

check my YouTube channel (jeepnuts311) I installed one

Or on the forum here
http://www.coloradodiesel.org/threads/mighty-mouse-pcv-catch-can-review-install.2353/

 

[Burgess159]

The minerals and moly are the additive package. These are the constituents of TBN.

Silicon can show that dirt is getting through your air filter.

Metals are the wear metals from the engine.

Sodium is a contaminant.

Yes the remaining TBN value ensures the oil hasn't become acidic. The EGR gases are acidic and will deplete the alkalinity of the oil over time. Low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous, Sulphur) oils are required for modern diesels to protect the emissions systems. Low SAPS oils sacrifice TBN and anti-wear additives. The additives can be supplemented, however your better off just using a quality Cj4 or Ci4 diesel oil that has an adequate additive package. There are some manufactures which still make synthetic Cj4 and Ci4 oils, so you have options.

The tested Cst viscosity can be compared to the Manufacturers starting viscosity to determine how the oil is holding up over time. Synthetics hold their viscosity much longer than conventional oils.

The only oil additives I've used in my VW Jetta TDI are Liqui Moly MoS2 and Motor Protect. Liqui Moly assured me these will not alter the advertised viscosity of an oil and will not cause any DPF failures. However these can increase the SAPS of an oil so there will be some impact on the longevity of your DPF.

https://products.liqui-moly.us/mos2-anti-friction-engine-treatment.html

https://products.liqui-moly.com/motor-protect-5.html

I plan to use the Motor Protect mixed with M1 Delvac Cj4 ESP in my 2.8 after break-in when I change the oil at 7,500 miles, and every 30K after that. in between the Motor Protect treatments I will use MoS2, one can per 6 qt oil change. Just like in my VW Jetta.... I've never used the lucas products so I can't comment on their efficacy.

I saw the LiquiMoly as an option on the CarID oil change options for our truck but had never heard of it. After you talking about their products, I did some investigating last night. I don't know if every company that produces oil and additives and such offers a lot of products that maybe you just don't see when you go to look for oil for your vehicle, but LiquiMoly sure does. I looked up oil for my 2011 Kia Optima with the 2.4 gas engine and it gave me like 20 results. I know the owners manual suggests 5w20 (and 0w20 I think too along with another oil, possibly 5w30), and I got a few 5w20 hits, but it also suggested for my car 5w30, 5w40, 0w40 I think and some others. I was surprised to say the least. I may try their products on the next oil change for the truck, as well as the car.

Are their products better than products from Mobil 1 or Pennzoil? I don't know much about oils, I usually get the cheapest full synthetic name brand oil for my vehicles when I change oil (last time the car got Halvoline, before that was Mobil 1 I think). Only exception to that was with my full size Duramax, I used only Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic.

 

[CleverUserName]

I saw the LiquiMoly as an option on the CarID oil change options for our truck but had never heard of it. After you talking about their products, I did some investigating last night. I don't know if every company that produces oil and additives and such offers a lot of products that maybe you just don't see when you go to look for oil for your vehicle, but LiquiMoly sure does. I looked up oil for my 2011 Kia Optima with the 2.4 gas engine and it gave me like 20 results. I know the owners manual suggests 5w20 (and 0w20 I think too along with another oil, possibly 5w30), and I got a few 5w20 hits, but it also suggested for my car 5w30, 5w40, 0w40 I think and some others. I was surprised to say the least. I may try their products on the next oil change for the truck, as well as the car.

Are their products better than products from Mobil 1 or Pennzoil? I don't know much about oils, I usually get the cheapest full synthetic name brand oil for my vehicles when I change oil (last time the car got Halvoline, before that was Mobil 1 I think). Only exception to that was with my full size Duramax, I used only Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic.

The main issue with buying synthetic lubricants in the USA is how the term "synthetic" is defined. Unfortunately many motor oils manufactured and sold as "Synthetic" and "Fully Synthetic", actually are not. There are base oils made from hydrotreated petroleum and Visom which are used in many brands sold here. These are also referred to as Group III base stocks. In Europe, Group III lubricants can't be sold or marketed as synthetic, only Group IV or V can fall under that terminology.

Group III base oils are cheaper to produce than oils made from PAO, Esters, GTL, etc... So in the USA, an oil may be labeled as "Synthetic" or "Fully Synthetic" however it is actually a synthetic blend or not synthetic at all if sold in EU. Crazy huh?

If you really want to know if an oil is a true synthetic, it should be listed in the product SDS. Many popular, value priced and even some premium brands sold in the USA are actually blends.

The old M1 Delvac ESP CJ-4 was a true synthetic made with premium base oils. I bought a large quantity of this oil back in 2015 for around 70% off normal price, a deal to good to pass up. It was less than $2 a qt. I will be using this oil for the next 100K miles...

Liqui Moly's additives are regulated by TUV and are independently tested to prove merit and efficacy per the products claims. So basically if an additive is marketed as a friction reducer it must be tested and certified as such to be sold.

In America, no such certification is required with additives. Unfortunately, "Snake oil" can be sold as an oil additive and there is no requirement for independent testing for it to be sold.

I trust Liqui Moly additives more than some of the other ones on the market due to the TUV certification.

 

[RollyPollieBenito]

The main issue with buying synthetic lubricants in the USA is how the term "synthetic" is defined. Unfortunately many motor oils manufactured and sold as "Synthetic" and "Fully Synthetic", actually are not. There are base oils made from hydrotreated petroleum and Visom which are used in many brands sold here. These are also referred to as Group III base stocks. In Europe, Group III lubricants can't be sold or marketed as synthetic, only Group IV or V can fall under that terminology.

Group III base oils are cheaper to produce than oils made from PAO, Esters, GTL, etc... So in the USA, an oil may be labeled as "Synthetic" or "Fully Synthetic" however it is actually a synthetic blend or not synthetic at all if sold in EU. Crazy huh?

If you really want to know if an oil is a true synthetic, it should be listed in the product SDS. Many popular, value priced and even some premium brands sold in the USA are actually blends.

The old M1 Delvac ESP CJ-4 was a true synthetic made with premium base oils. I bought a large quantity of this oil back in 2015 for around 70% off normal price, a deal to good to pass up. It was less than $2 a qt. I will be using this oil for the next 100K miles...

Liqui Moly's additives are regulated by TUV and are independently tested to prove merit and efficacy per the products claims. So basically if an additive is marketed as a friction reducer it must be tested and certified as such to be sold.

In America, no such certification is required with additives. Unfortunately, "Snake oil" can be sold as an oil additive and there is no requirement for independent testing for it to be sold.

I trust Liqui Moly additives more than some of the other ones on the market due to the TUV certification.

Great info

 

[CleverUserName]

I just read this today. Ford rejected use of new the CK-4 HDEO oils in ANY ford diesel engine due to inadequate engine protection. I'm not a ford guy, but I respect them for going against API and the EPA. FoMoCo is making there own OEM spec or continue to use a CJ-4 oil.

"Ford will not be recommending the use of CK-4 motor oils in any Ford diesel engines, new or old. Testing Ford has done on some CK-4 formulations have shown inadequate wear protection compared to CJ-4 formulations developed and licensed before 2016. Like many other diesel engine manufacturers, with their own internal OEM specification, Ford will now be recommending oils that meet an OEM specification, Ford Material Engineering Specification WSS-M2C171-F1. The customer should use an oil showing that it meets this specification."

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrica...otor Company CK-4 FA-4 Position Statement.pdf

Ford Recommended oils: https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/additionalinfo/dieseloilsWSSM2C171F1.pdf

It looks like the New Rotella T-6 CK-4 is on the list, but not M1 Delvac ESP 5w40. The 0w40 ESP is listed, but this is not available in the USA. I wonder why Mobil "value engineered" Delvac ESP 5w40 CK-4 into an inferior product. Maybe to compete with the other cheaper options in the Walmart oil aisle ? What a disappointment...

 

[RollyPollieBenito]

All these talk about oil quality is making uncomfortable with buying anything other than the mobile 1 dexos2 that the dealer by me sale.

 

[EKarlW]

All these talk about oil quality is making uncomfortable with buying anything other than the mobile 1 dexos2 that the dealer by me sale.

If by quality you mean 'thinness' - that's bugging me too. The problem I have is if you use a non-dexos2 spec oil they can claim it caused the issue if the engine eats itself, but if your engine prematurely wears out at say 80K vs an expected 200K because they spec'd a weak thin oil - we're on the hook since the warranty is only 5/60. I'm considering the Castrol Edge TD 10-40 again since they've added 'Dexos 2' to the label.

 

[AndyZ71]

my take is use what the dealer uses, at that point if something fails they can't blame the oil and deny coverage.

 

[Rockcrawlerdude]

I still use the dexos2 "thin oil" I just change it early (5000mi, about 35% left on gauge) to make sure it isn't all used up. Cheap insurance, IMO.

Pretty sure any oil would get your engine thru the warranty period. It's the life after warranty that most people are worried about, and that's why people want better protection.

 

[RollyPollieBenito]

my take is use what the dealer uses, at that point if something fails they can't blame the oil and deny coverage.

Yeah, I have to agree with AndyZ71 on this one.

And also RockCrawlerDude on changing it early.
Rather be safe than sorry.

 

[CleverUserName]

If by quality you mean 'thinness' - that's bugging me too. The problem I have is if you use a non-dexos2 spec oil they can claim it caused the issue if the engine eats itself, but if your engine prematurely wears out at say 80K vs an expected 200K because they spec'd a weak thin oil - we're on the hook since the warranty is only 5/60. I'm considering the Castrol Edge TD 10-40 again since they've added 'Dexos 2' to the label.

If you had a catastrophic engine failure, I seriously doubt the dealership would test your oil to see what the additive levels were. That is the only way, other than someone verbally telling them. How would they find out you used a superior oil to Dexos 2 ?

There are other 5w40 Dexos 2 Mid SAPS oils available:

https://www.motul.com/ca/en-US/products/8100-x-clean-5w40

http://www.amalie.com/Passenger-Car...les//78782B77C2F6/Elixir_European_Formula.pdf

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...ropean-car-formula-5w-40-synthetic-motor-oil/

https://www.redlineoil.com/news_article.aspx?id=347

Found another one too: http://www.valvolineeurope.com/english/products/engine_oils/synpower/cid(9498)/synpower_mst_c3_5w-40

It's not just the viscosity that is the issue, but also the removal of EP additives like ZDDP from Dexos 2 and other mid-SAPS CK-4 oils. This is why FCA changed the oil spec for the Ram Eco Diesel and what Ford determined was the cause of the increased engine wear in their testing.

 

[Burgess159]

For those of you who went with the Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5w30. If you bought it off of Amazon, it's about $52.00 (around $8.66/ qt.) for 6 quarts plus tax. I had heard someone say the cheapest they had found was at their local Walmart, for even cheaper than Amazon. I looked on Walmarts website, but did not find anything that was cheaper. It was either the same or more expensive I think.

Last weekend, walking through one of the Walmarts around here grocery shopping, I ended up over near Automotive and looked at oil while I was there and the above mentioned oil was $6.49/ qt. which figures up to $38 something total for 6. Quite a bit cheaper. Might try your local Wally-World next time if you are going with Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5w30

 

[Rockcrawlerdude]

@CleverUserName You have provided us with tons and tons of info on this thread. Thank you for that. Additive packages and total base numbers and all that.

Could you just simplify all this for me by answering one question.

No matter what oil you choose, will you be protected as long as the oil hasn't been "depleted" before you change it?

 

[CleverUserName]

@CleverUserName You have provided us with tons and tons of info on this thread. Thank you for that. Additive packages and total base numbers and all that.

Could you just simplify all this for me by answering one question.

No matter what oil you choose, will you be protected as long as the oil hasn't been "depleted" before you change it?

"protected", as in your warranty or the engine? Your Dexos 2 oil may have ample alkalinity (TBN) in reserve, but it still lacks EP additives like ZDDP to protect the engine under high loads like towing. You can use one of the 5w40s on the list to increase the viscosity, but under the spec, the SAPS is limited to .008 % so they must sacrifice important additives to protect the emissions systems.

My previous point was, how would the dealer "know" that you did not use a Dexos 2 oil? Do you think they would run a blackstone test to measure the viscosity and additives? I seriously doubt they would. And it they did, and the SAPS came back closer to 1% (CJ-4 spec) would they even realize it ? Modern Oil chemistry is more complicated than most service writers can grasp... Don't see it really happening. You could just say you used one of the Dexos 2 5w40 oils on the list.

 

[Ottomaddick]

I'm at 6500 miles and i'm showing 14% oil life remaining, I will wait until the service light comes on, before scheduling service for my first of 2 free maintenance appointments. For those with more miles driven, how many miles prior to your first service?
Thanks

I changed my own oil at about 3500 miles. Had first of four free changes at 7500 miles and again at 15000. Will probably do my own again at 20000 miles and remain on a 5000 mile cycle. At 19500 miles now. No motor problems what so ever but my drives are typically 60 miles, rarely short or stop and go driving. I would have gone gas if I wasn't putting 121 miles a day on the engine.

 

[RollyPollieBenito]

I changed my own oil at about 3500 miles. Had first of four free changes at 7500 miles and again at 15000. Will probably do my own again at 20000 miles and remain on a 5000 mile cycle. At 19500 miles now. No motor problems what so ever but my drives are typically 60 miles, rarely short or stop and go driving. I would have gone gas if I wasn't putting 121 miles a day on the engine.

How you get 4 free oil change?