[Coloradorob]

Bought some Rotella oil and was really disappointed in what I found at the bottom of the bottle.
I usually shake the oil just to mix up the additives....
But I decided to not do that because in the past I have seen lots of crap in the bottom of oil containers......
The last one was a heavy amount of black grit in the bottom of Penzoil Ultra Platinum
I was blown away by this as that oil is supposed to be top tier oil......
I sent an email to Penzoil but never got a reply.
I suppose with all the wack fks out there trying to get something for nothing they ether didn’t care that there oil is crap or they didn’t believe me........

The first time I seen crap in the bottom of a container of oil it was Fords Motorcraft oil......

So now there is 3 companies that I will NEVER BUY THERE OIL.......

This last pic was a bottle that I shook before using so who knows how much was floating in the oil when I poured it in the motor....

Rob

 

[Coloradorob]

It sure why this site hates my iPad
I only picked one of each picture but it posted 3 of the first pic....
Then when you edit the post it only shows 1 of each picture.....
Can you say bugs ?

Rob

 

[Coloradorob]

This from "SHELL"....

The substance that appears at the bottom of the oil bottle is cause by trace amounts of moisture in the oil. Because of different temperature and humidity changes, moisture can develop in the oil and mixes with some of the detergent additive. The detergents in the oil emulsify this moisture and, if the bottle sits for a period of time, cause it to settle to the bottom. This is not unusual and will not affect the quality or performance of the oil. As soon as the engine reaches operating temperature, the moisture will evaporate through the crankcase ventilation system.

 

[Coloradorob]

Just an update to the Rotella oil
i put this in for 1 week just as an engine flush.
Something I wanted to try because I noticed that after an oil change the oil turned black immediately.
I figured that there was a lot of soot in the motor after the old oil was drained and that was turning the new oil black. So i figured I would do a flush.

So after 1 week and 200 miles I drained the T4 out and hopefully that would flush most of that soot out.
And this is what the T4 looked like after 200 miles.

I had a hard time pouring this oil out of the oil pan and back in the old oil bottles. It was extremely thick and gooey.

I sho add I change my oil every 3000 - 4000 miles

Rob

 

[Duken4evr]

I run T6 for 7.5K miles, it is still dark brown in my intact tuned EGR turned off engine. The oil turning black is solely due to recycled EGR soot. The 2.8 only holds 6 quarts of oil, which is not a lot for the heavy EGR this engine runs. It should be noted that the R425 2.5L VM engine that ours are descended from was designed in the 90s before EGR was a thing, and that the 2.5 held a little more oil (about 7.25 quarts) and made less power than our engines do. It also ran heavier 15/40 oil.

** Warning, baseless conjecture and personal opinion follows. I am not an engineer, but that never stopped me from offering my opinion****

Have seen disturbing photos of failed pistons in these trucks, which appear to have originated in the piston pins. I believe that the small end piston failures that are occasionally seen in the 2.8 are due to heavily EGR contaminated oil, not metallurgical issues with the parts themselves. Metallurgical analysys of a failed pin done by GDE showed it was "different" than the older FM manufactured piston set, but the failed pin's hardness was "normal". I think the heavily EGR loaded oil causes a small scoring over a long period of time on the small end piston pins, and that this scoring leads to localized stress and eventual failure in some engines.

So, what can one do? I agree 100% with your changing the oil early at 3-4K miles. It is easy to do, oil is cheap, engines are really expensive. I don't think our engines have enough oil capacity to absorb all that soot for the 7.5K oil change interval specified by GM, which is simply too long given the EGR load and power output of our engines.

Let's face it, EGR is the work of the Devil. Getting rid of EGR was the primary reason I was willing to forego the warranty and tune mine. The power increase is nice, but getting it was not the primary reason for tuning it. If it was stock, I would change the oil early and often, certainly would not wait 7.5K miles - around half that interval would be what I would do.

It would be interesting to have an oil analysis done and have them measure the soot content. Here is an article on it by Blackstone Labs.

Soot: How Much is too Much? | Blackstone Laboratories

www.blackstone-labs.com

 

[Coloradorob]

I run T6 for 7.5K miles, it is still dark brown in my intact tuned EGR turned off engine. The oil turning black is solely due to recycled EGR soot. The 2.8 only holds 6 quarts of oil, which is not a lot for the heavy EGR this engine runs. It should be noted that the R425 2.5L VM engine that ours are descended from was designed in the 90s before EGR was a thing, and that the 2.5 held a little more oil (about 7.25 quarts) and made less power than our engines do. It also ran heavier 15/40 oil.

** Warning, baseless conjecture and personal opinion follows. I am not an engineer, but that never stopped me from offering my opinion****

Have seen disturbing photos of failed pistons in these trucks, which appear to have originated in the piston pins. I believe that the small end piston failures that are occasionally seen in the 2.8 are due to heavily EGR contaminated oil, not metallurgical issues with the parts themselves. Metallurgical analysys of a failed pin done by GDE showed it was "different" than the older FM manufactured piston set, but the failed pin's hardness was "normal". I think the heavily EGR loaded oil causes a small scoring over a long period of time on the small end piston pins, and that this scoring leads to localized stress and eventual failure in some engines.

So, what can one do? I agree 100% with your changing the oil early at 3-4K miles. It is easy to do, oil is cheap, engines are really expensive. I don't think our engines have enough oil capacity to absorb all that soot for the 7.5K oil change interval specified by GM, which is simply too long given the EGR load and power output of our engines.

Let's face it, EGR is the work of the Devil. Getting rid of EGR was the primary reason I was willing to forego the warranty and tune mine. The power increase is nice, but getting it was not the primary reason for tuning it. If it was stock, I would change the oil early and often, certainly would not wait 7.5K miles - around half that interval would be what I would do.

It would be interesting to have an oil analysis done and have them measure the soot content. Here is an article on it by Blackstone Labs.

Soot: How Much is too Much? | Blackstone Laboratories

www.blackstone-labs.com

That was my concern also.
i have read that soot is abrasive and causes damage.
I agree not enough oil in the engine for the oil change interval

I was amazed by how fast the oil turned black after changing it.
This could only mean there is a lot of soot covered metal in the engine after the oil is drained.
That soot saturates the fresh oil.
The thing I have noticed is that these oil analysis always come back soot level ok and you could have run the oil longer. This has led me to think these analysis are BS....

You seen how bad the oil was in my truck after only 1 week
And that’s not new soot that’s mostly leftover soot.
Hopefully this flush has helped wash a lot of the soot out..

These engines desperately need a bypass oil filtration system.....

Rob

 

[Duken4evr]

There are bypass kits available using Amsoil filters. Probably not a bad idea, it could not hurt.

For those not familiar, bypass kits take a small portion of the pressurized oil flow and runs it through a much finer micron filter than the main oil filter. The bypass filter is far too fine and restrictive in it's filtering to be used as a main filter, it sits off to the side and catches the soot and other small particles that the main filter can't catch because it needs to supply adequate oil flow.

 

[scarfile]

Just an update to the Rotella oil
i put this in for 1 week just as an engine flush.
Something I wanted to try because I noticed that after an oil change the oil turned black immediately.
I figured that there was a lot of soot in the motor after the old oil was drained and that was turning the new oil black. So i figured I would do a flush.

So after 1 week and 200 miles I drained the T4 out and hopefully that would flush most of that soot out.
And this is what the T4 looked like after 200 miles.
View attachment 8699 View attachment 8699
I had a hard time pouring this oil out of the oil pan and back in the old oil bottles. It was extremely thick and gooey.

I sho add I change my oil every 3000 - 4000 miles

Rob

Based on highway/city miles/towing and time between changes would consider severe... 3000 in my book

 

[Burgess159]

So after 1 week and 200 miles I drained the T4 out and hopefully that would flush most of that soot out.
And this is what the T4 looked like after 200 miles.

You're using T4? I can't recall if I've read in your previous posts if you're deleted or not, but isn't T4 15w40? Don't know that I would run that in my truck and I'm deleted. Just wondering is all.

 

[Duken4evr]

15/40 what VM used to spec in the older 2.5s, before the huge push for emissions and fuel economy. I wager T4 is fine for summer use, but modern fully synthetic 5/40 T6 is a more efficient and better choice as it flows a lot better at startup. T4 would cost less and since he was doing a "flush" and dumping it shortly after anyway, it makes sense to use it.

 

[Coloradorob]

You're using T4? I can't recall if I've read in your previous posts if you're deleted or not, but isn't T4 15w40? Don't know that I would run that in my truck and I'm deleted. Just wondering is all.

not deleted
only in For a couple hundred miles as a cheap flush.
and it was 10-30
but it was super thick when I dumped it....

Rob

 

[turbodiverart]

Couple things here and I know this is a Rotella thread but....
Anyone know how much better the oil is when using a catch can like the ADP? I'd think that if it's almost eliminating the oily streaks in the intake that it'll help with soot created by the EGR.

Also, I don't know the actual design of the engine but if there's a pressurized port off the engine, can't someone smarter than me design a multi-quart reservoir that collects a certain amount of oil from a pressurized port and bleeds back capacity to the engine thru a smaller port so you don't drain back more than you are putting into the can? Although not as good a a larger oil pan, it does add capacity to the system. Mine is so new that I haven't even done an oil change yet but, I assume there's no room to design a kick-out pan to increase oil pan capacity?

 

[Burgess159]

Couple things here and I know this is a Rotella thread but....
Anyone know how much better the oil is when using a catch can like the ADP? I'd think that if it's almost eliminating the oily streaks in the intake that it'll help with soot created by the EGR.

Also, I don't know the actual design of the engine but if there's a pressurized port off the engine, can't someone smarter than me design a multi-quart reservoir that collects a certain amount of oil from a pressurized port and bleeds back capacity to the engine thru a smaller port so you don't drain back more than you are putting into the can? Although not as good a a larger oil pan, it does add capacity to the system. Mine is so new that I haven't even done an oil change yet but, I assume there's no room to design a kick-out pan to increase oil pan capacity?

I can speak to the first part. My oil isn’t any better quality, I feel. I have their catch can and while it does collect oil, that’s it. And I’m deleted so my EGR is off too. There is no filter media in the can that would collect soot, otherwise it might help.

 

[turbodiverart]

True, I wasn't thinking of the soot in vapor, only soot in the oil. Wish there was a way to manually block it off without throwing codes all over the place. Guess just venting to the outside won't work huh?

 

[Coloradorob]

True, I wasn't thinking of the soot in vapor, only soot in the oil. Wish there was a way to manually block it off without throwing codes all over the place. Guess just venting to the outside won't work huh?

The catch can stops oil mist from reaching the EGR. Or at least some of it. That oil mist will mix with soot from the exhaust and plug up the EGR and the intake manifold over time.
Dont forget the EGR recycles a small amount of the exhaust to lower NOx. Then they add crank case vapors to the EGR to be re burnt
All in the effort to lower emissions...


Rob

 

[Burgess159]

True, I wasn't thinking of the soot in vapor, only soot in the oil. Wish there was a way to manually block it off without throwing codes all over the place. Guess just venting to the outside won't work huh?

You can vent to atmosphere. Some do. They say though it smells like an oil refinery and wherever you park you will have an oil spot. If you were deleted, you could plum it in to your exhaust so it would burn off in the exhaust. Don’t think that would be a good idea on a stock exhaust.

 

[turbodiverart]

You can vent to atmosphere. Some do. They say though it smells like an oil refinery and wherever you park you will have an oil spot. If you were deleted, you could plum it in to your exhaust so it would burn off in the exhaust. Don’t think that would be a good idea on a stock exhaust.

OK, that makes s lot of sense. I know plumbing it pre-DPF would probably promote clogging but wonder if plumbing it in after DPF would help? I don't know if enough heat post DPF could be generated not to make a sooty-oily mess but maybe keeping the catch-can in place will allow less of the sludge to to make it to the exhaust and the soot would flow out the exhaust. Naturally it needs to be post all sensors.

Smell can't be worse than my '99 6.5TD which still has the CDR connected pre-turbo.

 

[Coloradorob]

You can vent to atmosphere. Some do. They say though it smells like an oil refinery and wherever you park you will have an oil spot. If you were deleted, you could plum it in to your exhaust so it would burn off in the exhaust. Don’t think that would be a good idea on a stock exhaust.

I run it down and into the frame. Don’t smell anything that way. So far all good.

Rob

 

[turbodiverart]

I run it down and into the frame. Don’t smell anything that way. So far all good.

Rob

That's awesome to know, couple questions. Do you see a difference in the oil or regens? How many miles have you had since the mod, any downsides?

Does it just drip or do you have a catch can at the frame? Or a catch can up top to catch the goo and just let sooty vapor exit? Nothing special about the hose, will heater hose work? I have an ADP catch can up top.

Did you just plug the inlet pre-turbo or is there some crazy sensor that needs to see some type of flow?

Definitively a mod I'm considering. Would seem to add life to both the oil, soot trap and engine overall.

 

[Coloradorob]

That's awesome to know, couple questions. Do you see a difference in the oil or regens? How many miles have you had since the mod, any downsides?

Does it just drip or do you have a catch can at the frame? Or a catch can up top to catch the goo and just let sooty vapor exit? Nothing special about the hose, will heater hose work? I have an ADP catch can up top.

Did you just plug the inlet pre-turbo or is there some crazy sensor that needs to see some type of flow?

Definitively a mod I'm considering. Would seem to add life to both the oil, soot trap and engine overall.

I haven’t noticed any change in regens.
And the oil gets dirty 10 sec after you change it.
But I didn’t do this for those reasons. I did it to stop the oil mist from mixing with the soot going into the EGR. The soot is still making it to the EGR but no oil mist. This way the EGR will be dirty but not gooey and will not gum up the intake over time.

It drips inside the frame so I haven’t noticed any dripping on the ground. I undercoat my truck with a oil base undercoating so I wouldn’t notice it anyway.
I have noticed a smell once in a while, while outside the truck but no smell inside from the hose.

Now this is the tricky part.
When I first had the idea to stop all oil mist from reaching the EGR, I decided to try a air oil separator filter used on industrial vacuum pumps. These filters remove 99.9% of the oil mist from the air being exhausted through the pump. Testing showed that even though the turbo pulls air from the engine crank case there wasn’t enough pull at idle and I didn’t want any crank case pressure building up.
so I needed a new idea.
I put a T in the line between the CCV and air/oil filter and added a heater hose down to the frame.
Any oil in the hose from the CCV runs down the hose to the air/oil separator filter. So I don’t see much oil dripping from the hose to the frame. I do get the oil mist that leaves an oil stain.

The line from the CCV to the turbo has the air /oil separator filter installed. So there is a small restriction in that line. It must be just enough because it has not triggered a check engine light.

This setup has been on the truck for just under a year. Winters here can get very cold. This brings up a possible problem. CCV fumes cary a lot of moisture and that moisture can freeze and block the CCV vent line. That would be really bad as pressure would build up in the crank case.
So I pulled the hose out of the frame for the winter. I left it sticking out an inch so I could look under the truck and see if there was a mist coming from the hose.
If it was cold I would check to make sure there was air coming out of the hose. It looks like cold exhaust coming from the hose. Warm vapors on a cold day. The other way to make sure there was no ice blocking the line was to pop the hood and open the oil fill cap but not removing it. If the cap dances around there is a build up of pressure in the crank case. If it just sites there all is good.

You may have read where some people have had bent turbo blades from ice buildup in the CCV hose dropping into the turbo. This ice buildup is from moisture freezing in the hose .
I believe my setup has prevented that from happening BUT there is always a chance water could freeze in the hose going down to the frame.
That is why I check it if it’s been really cold out.
Yes it sounds like a cluste fk bit so far it’s working.

When I first was playing with the CCV hose I dissconnected it from the turbo and the truck threw a check engine light. I can’t remember if I had it blocked or not. Ether way the computer picked up on the fact the line was disconnected.
Now with the small restriction in the line caused by the air/oil filter separator there is no check engine light. Even though there is a T in the hose between the engine and the separator. So the small restriction seems to be working.

Another idea I had was to add the T in the hose from the CCV and just before it gets to the turbo install a oil separator used to remove oil from air systems. There popular to use in air systems that use a piston compressor. These compressors are famous for blowing a small amount of oil with the air .. really bad if you use the system to pain cars ect.
This system would also add a small amount of restriction and catch any oil at the same time. The T would vent to atmosphere....
This should also work.

Be for warned ........
Not understanding how things work can cause very serious damage to your truck.
So dont do what I do If your not willing to suffer the consequences....
I can’t emphasize this enough.

Rob